Davin News Server

On 2025-03-14 17:58, pothead wrote:
> On 2025-03-15, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>> On 3/13/25 20:43, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2025-03-13 16:41, pothead wrote:
>>>> On 2025-03-13, Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 20:56:30 -0000 (UTC), pothead
>>>>> <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trump is correct.
>>>>>> Unless absolutely necessary.
>>>>>> When the US depends upon other countries for needed goods then it gives
>>>>>> up all control.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think is going to happen to the myriad of products, say
>>>>>> prescription
>>>>>> drugs for example, if the USA gets in a war with China?
>>>>>
>>>>> That's *exactly* why trade is good and why the US has spent the past
>>>>> eighty or so years evolving free trade.  Each nation becomes too
>>>>> dependent on the others to risk going to war with them.
>>>>
>>>> True, but for various reasons "free trade" is no longer equal and
>>>> equitable.
>>
>>
>> Question:  when was it *ever* "equal and equitable"?
> 
> During the 50's and 60's it was "reasonable". It started to go downhill
> in the 70's and really downhill big time in the 80's.

You should look at a chart of tax rates in your country by year...

> 
>>
>>>> China in particular devaluing their currency is one example.
>>>> How does the US compete with a country that is effectively using slave
>>>> labor?
>>>
>>> Hmmmm... ...you know who CHOOSES to buy those Chinese products, right?
>>>
>>> And who CHOOSES to move their manufacturing there?
>>
>> Gosh, you're making it sound like a lot of American Corporations decided
>> to abandon US workers by offshoring.
> 
> They did.
> And the reason is that there was no incentive to manufacture here in USA.
> Corporations are tied to profits and stock holders.
> Make a pair of Nike sneakers for $100 in China vs $125 in USA is a win.

So like the drug problem, you want to blame other countries...

...when the problem is really internal.

> 
> 
>>>>> If a nation is your only source of wheat, you dare not invade them.
>>>>> When you're their only source of corn, they dare not invade you.
>>>>
>>>> It comes down to a matter of priorities. So do we need Nike sneakers
>>>> from China
>>>> or do we need prescription drugs. And what do they need from the USA?
>>>> they get to choose as well.
>>>
>>> Tell me:
>>>
>>> Where is Nike's headquarters?
>>
>> Pharma manufacturing is also something that has a lot of policy
>> manipulation.  At one point, there were huge tax breaks to offshore it
>> from the USA to Puerto Rico, for example.
> 
> This is the big one.
> Even if the pharma isn't totally manufactured offshore, many times the ingredients
> are.
> We need to bring this back to USA 100%.
> 
> 
>>
>>>>> It amazes me that the Magas and haters don't get that.  It's as if
>>>>> they'd rather live in a combative world risking war than to play nice
>>>>> with the other kids.
>>>>
>>>> People, including Trump want FAIR TRADE. Why should goods we export to
>>>> some country have taxes, tariffs on them that are high while goods
>>>> they export to the USA do not?
>>>
>>> Give an example.
>>
>> He should also include non-physical trade, known as "Services".  The USA
>> is a huge 'exporter' of these.
> 
> Sure. Consulting is a huge, somewhat under the radar, biz.
> 
> 
>>>> The same applies to NATO. Countries need to pay their fair share
>>>> assuming of course they are able of doing such.
>>
>> Of course, the whole concept of "fair share" started back with Obama, as
>> he was who got the EU members to agree to the 2% GDP target.  It had an
>> aspirational goal of meeting this benchmark in ten (10) years, which for
>> 2014 is FY2025.
>>
>> And FYI, you don't need to believe me on this:  it is explicitly
>> documented on NATO's own website:
>>
>> "In 2014, NATO Heads of State and Government agreed to commit 2% of
>> their national Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to defence spending, to help
>> ensure the Alliance's continued military readiness. This decision was
>> taken in response to Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea, and amid
>> broader instability in the Middle East. The 2014 Defence Investment
>> Pledge built on an earlier commitment to meeting this 2% of GDP
>> guideline, agreed in 2006 by NATO Defence Ministers."
>>
>> <https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_49198.htm>
>>
>>
>> The implications of this is that all of the bitching about this that DJT
>> did during his first term was grossly dishonest because the FY25
>> deadline had not yet transpired for any country to have been delinquent.
> 
> 
> My feelings regarding tariffs and trade are that trade needs to be free and fair.
> If China for example is devaluing their currency or using slave labor to produce
> products, that s not fair trade.

And how many pairs of Nikes do you own?

> 
> 
> 
>>
>>>> IMHO NATO needs to be updated. It's a cold war agreement that is
>>>> getting stale.
>>
>> Events since 2014 illustrate otherwise. See the above text for examples.
>>
>> This might have had a decent argument 15-25 years ago when Russia was
>> actually a NATO "PfP" member ... but that ship has long since sailed:
>> they got kicked out when they invaded their neighbors.
> 
> 
> I stand by my statement.
> NATO is a mess right now.
> And it needs to be fixed as China, Iran, Russia are aligning to fight the USA.
> It will happen.
 > We need to be prepared.

Russia is getting Trump to surrender for them.