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From: Ron 'I'm not some fucking jew' Jacobsohn <rj11@std.c0m>
Newsgroups: uk.legal,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa,talk.politics.guns,soc.culture.canada,nyc.general,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,rec.arts.tv,alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.greek,alt.abortion,alt.atheism,can.politics,uk.politics.misc,alt.checkmate,alt.slack.goathead,alt.life.sucks,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.gooks,soc.culture.flips
Subject: Re: An unhelpful discourse on 'Israeel'
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2025 21:08:56 +0100
Organization: NewsDemon - www.newsdemon.com

On Mon, 07 Jul 2025 14:21:40 -0400, rjac@shell02.TheWorld.com wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:50:58 -0500, "Zionism is a cancer growing on
>Uncle Sam's ass" <kike_on_bike@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>An unhelpful discourse on Israel
>>
>>The following article is written by Israeli/American peace activist Jeff 
>>Halper for the Australian Jewish News but the paper refuses to run the 
>>piece, despite spending weeks attacking Halper and his supporters in its 
>>pages:
>>
>>The uproar in the organized Jewish community over the prospect of my 
>>speaking in Australia is truly startling to an Israeli like me. Granted, I 
>>am very critical of Israel's policies of Occupation and doubt whether a 
>>two-state solution is still possible given the extent of Israel's 
>>settlements, but this hardly warrants the kind of demonization I received in 
>>the pages of The AJN. Opinions similar to mine are readily available in the 
>>mainstream Israeli media. Indeed, I myself write frequently for the Israeli 
>>press and appear regularly on Israeli TV and radio.
>>
>>Why, then, the hysteria? Why was I banned from Temple Emmanuel in Sydney, a 
>>self-proclaimed progressive synagogue? Why did I, an Israeli, have to 
>>address the Jewish community from a church? Why was I invited to speak in 
>>every university in eastern Australia yet, at Monash University, I was 
>>forced to hold a secret meeting with Jewish faculty in a darkened room far 
>>from the halls of intellectual discourse? Why, when the "leaders" of the 
>>Jewish community were excoriating me and my positions, did the Israelis who 
>>attended my talks express such appreciation that "real" Israeli views were 
>>finally getting aired in Australia, even if they did not all agree with me? 
>>Given the support my right to speak evidenced by most of the letters 
>>published in The AJN, this all raises disturbing questions over the right of 
>>Australian Jews to hear divergent views on Israel's conflict with the 
>>Palestinians held by Israelis themselves.
>>
>>It raises an even deeper issue, however. What should be the relationship of 
>>Diaspora Jewry to Israel? Whatever threat I represented to the organized 
>>Jewish community of Australia had less to do with Israel, I suspect, than 
>>with some damage I might to do to the idealized "Leon Uris" image of Israel 
>>which you hold onto so dearly. This might seem like a strange thing to say, 
>>but I do not believe that you in the Diaspora have internalized the fact 
>>that Israel is a foreign country as far from your idealized version as 
>>Australia is far from its image as kangaroo-land. Countries change, they 
>>evolve. What would Australia's European founders think - even those who 
>>until very recently pursued a "White Australia" policy - if they were to see 
>>the multi-cultural country you have become? Well, almost 30% of Israeli 
>>citizens are not Jews, we may very well have permanently incorporated 
>>another four million Palestinians - the residents of the Occupied 
>>Territories - into our country and, to top it off, it's clear by now that 
>>the vast majority of the world's Jews are not going to emigrate to Israel. 
>>Those facts, plus the urgent need of Israel to make peace with its 
>>neighbors, mean something. They mean that Israel must change in ways Ben 
>>Gurion, Leon Uris and Mark Leibler never envisioned, even if that's hard for 
>>you to accept.
>>
>>Yet I see this as a positive thing, a sign of a healthy country coming to 
>>grips with reality, some of it of its own creation, even if it means that 
>>Israel will evolve from a Jewish state into a state of all its citizens - a 
>>bi-national or democratic state. Rather than "eliminating" Israel, this 
>>challenge is in fact a natural and probably inevitable development. It will 
>>not be easy, but if you can become multi-cultural, so can we.
>>
>>But that's our problem as Israelis. What's your problem? Why should 
>>discussing such important issues for Israel be the cause of such distress 
>>for you? Because, I venture to say, you have a stake in preserving Israel's 
>>idealized image that trumps dealing with the real country. In my view, 
>>Israel is being used as the lynchpin of your ethnic identity in Australia; 
>>mobilizing around a beleaguered Israel is essential for keeping your kids 
>>Jewish. I would go so far as to accuse you of needing an Israel in conflict, 
>>which is why you seem so threatened by an Israel at peace, why you deny that 
>>peace is even possible, why a peaceful Israel that is neither threatened nor 
>>"Jewish" cannot fulfill the role you have cast for it, and thus why you 
>>characterize my message as "vile lies."
>>
>>This, to be honest, is the threat I represent. Only this can explain why 
>>rabbis, community "leaders" and Jewish professors choose to meet me secretly 
>>rather than have me, a critical Israel, in their synagogues or classrooms. 
>>This is all understandable. You do need a lynchpin if you are to preserve 
>>your identity as a prosperous community in a tolerant multi-cultural 
>>society. I would just question whether the real country of Israel can 
>>fulfill that role, or even if it's fair to Israel to expect it to.
>>
>>We are different peoples. Israel can no more define Diaspora Jewish life 
>>than you can define Israel. Rather than knee-jerk defense of an imaginary 
>>place, you need to develop a respect for Israel and Israeli voices, a 
>>respect that will come only when you start regarding Israel as a real 
>>country. And you have to get a life of your own. You have to develop 
>>alternative Diaspora Jewish cultures and identities. Ironically, after all I 
>>have said, the Israeli government will resist that, for it uses you as 
>>agents to support its policies, often extreme right-wing and militaristic 
>>policies that contradict your very values of cultural pluralism and human 
>>rights. Remember: Israel does what it does in your name. Unless you take an 
>>independent position, you are complicit.
>>
>>What befell me in Australia is just a tiny piece of a sad story of mutual 
>>exploitation: you using Israel to keep your community together, Israel using 
>>you to defend its indefensible policies. Perhaps something good can emerge 
>>from all this: robust discussion on the nature of Israeli-Diaspora 
>>relations. I'm going home to Jerusalem. You have to let Israel go and get a 
>>[Jewish] life.
>>
>>Jeff Halper is the Director of the Israeli Committee Against House 
>>Demolitions, a peace and human rights organization dedicated to achieving a 
>>just peace between Israelis and Palestinians.
>>
>>http://antonyloewenstein.com/2009/03/31/an-unhelpful-discourse-on-israel/ 
>
>There must be a Final Solution to the jewish question in order for
>there to be a lasting peace in the Middle East. Any suggestions?
>
>
>"From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" 

From the river and into the Mediterranean, Palestein vill be
Judenrein!