From: Dhu on Gate <campbell@neotext.ca>
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Austrisize Ukraine
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2025 20:58:53 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
On Wed, 3 Dec 2025 19:10:39 +0300, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> Dhu on Gate, <news:10gopvr$gncg$5@dont-email.me>
>
>> It doesn't get mentioned because everyone wants to blame Gengis
>> and the Mongols, but the MAIN difference between Russian and
>> Ukrainian was an affliction of the Austro-Hungarian Empire:
>> Ukraine was controlled by Vienna, Russia by Moscow.
>>
>> And it seems to me that the guys who settled WW2 understood the
>> importance of making (a shrunken) Austria a Neutral and Independant
>> buffer zone.
>>
>> Making Peace in Ukraine, and turning it into a decent place to live,
>> should be as easy as Austro-sizing Ukraine, not ostracizing Russia.
>
> The post-Soviet Ukraine is culturally, regionally diverse. Few
> times before I already posted this <https://tinyurl.com/nwfy26d>
> map, - it's pretty accurate. Every area has its specificity. A
> complete description of the history of all the areas would take
> many thick books. In the Atlanticist popular discourse today, the
> history of the Ukraine is nearly totally misinterpreted and / or
> falsified in order to serve the current political agenda.
>
> In fact, only a small, the most western part of the present day
> Ukraine was controlled by Vienna. It was appended to the Soviet
> Ukraine as a result of the WW2, and today many see that decision
> as a big Stalin's mistake. The region is culturally pretty alien
> to the rest. In the post-Soviet time, namely this area gave rise
> to the cult of nostalgic imitation of the German-Austrian Nazis,
> which later also infected far-right factions in other regions.
> Psychologically, the west-Ukrainian mania to mimic the Germanic
> Nazis means the desire of a former slave to mimic their former
> master, since within the Austro-Hungarian state the status of the
> ethnic Ukrainians were sort of lowest caste.
>
> Central Ukraine had no relation to Austria. But there was Polish
> colonization for 3 centuries, including within the Russian Empire.
> After the partition of Poland, imperial policies didn't somehow
> change the situation when the class of landlords (serf owners) in
> a large part of this territory was ethnically-culturally Polish.
>
> What is south / east of the present day Ukraine never was really
> Ukrainian but it was 'gifted' to the Soviet Ukrainian Republic by
> the early-Soviet government in the 1920s. Before the 18th century,
> the steppes (wild fields) were rarely populated and controlled by
> Turkic nomads under Crimean/Ottoman rule. That's another story.
>
> Besides these specifying remarks, the idea for - the remnants of -
> the Ukraine to be 'neutral / independant buffer zone' makes sense,
> of course.
This fits what I know of Ukraine's history.
I conflated Polish-Lithuania with Austro-Hungary
for brevity.
Dhu
--
Je suis Canadien:
Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglais,
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage.
Ne obliviscaris: vix ea nostra voco!
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Duncan Patton a Campbell