From: AlleyCat <katt@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.global-warming,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,alt.politics.liberalism,alt.politics.democrats,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Which Comes First, Carbon Dioxide Or Warming?
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2024 08:45:28 -0500
Organization: AlleyCat Computing, Inc.
Which Came First, The Carbon Dioxide Or The Heat?
https://arstechnica.com
The topic of anthropogenic climate change always seems to be a "hot" issue, and
an article in an upcoming issue of Science will look at the relation of two
components of climate change. The authors examine both the timing of CO2
increases relative to temperature increases, and verify a prediction made by
climate models.
Over the course of glacial and interglacial cycles, CO2 and temperature have
been highly correlated, BUT INCREASES IN CO2 OCCUR AFTER INCREASES IN
TEMPERATURE, rather than vice versa.
Most climate scientists have accepted that the climate system is complicated
and other forces may have initiated warming, while CO2 merely acted as a
positive feedback. Others, however, have used this evidence to suggest that CO2
may not cause increased temperatures.
=====
Ice Cores Show CO2 Increases Lag Behind Temperature Rises, Disproving The Link
To Global Warming
The lag proves that rising CO2 did not cause the initial warming as past ice
ages ended, but it does not in any way contradict the idea that higher CO2
levels cause warming.
Ice cores from Antarctica show that at the end of recent ice ages, the
concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere usually STARTED TO RISE ONLY
AFTER TEMPERATURES HAD BEGUN TO CLIMB. There is uncertainty about the timings,
partly because the air trapped in the cores is younger than the ice, but it
appears the lags might sometimes have been 800 years or more.
Initial warming:
This proves that rising CO2 was not the trigger that caused the initial warming
at the end of these ice ages - but no climate scientist has ever made this
claim. It certainly does not challenge the idea that more CO2 heats the planet.
We know that CO2 is a greenhouse gas because it absorbs and emits certain
frequencies of infrared radiation. Basic physics tells us that gases with this
property trap heat radiating from the Earth, that the planet would be a lot
colder if this effect was not real and that adding more CO2 to the atmosphere
will trap even more heat.
(same as with the end of The Little Ice Age... warming started LONG before CO²
got any where NEAR what would constitute CO² being able to "warm")
=====
(a lesson in non-denial denials)
Rise In Temperatures And CO2 Follow Each Other Closely, But Not Exactly, In
Climate Change - University of Copenhagen
Rise in temperatures and CO2 follow each other closely in climate change
The greatest climate change the world has seen in the last 100,000 years was
the transition from the ice age to the warm interglacial period. New research
from the Niels Bohr Institute at the University of Copenhagen indicates that,
contrary to previous opinion, the rise in temperature and the rise in the
atmospheric CO2 follow each other closely in terms of time. The results have
been published in the scientific journal, Climate of the Past.
In the warmer climate the atmospheric content of CO2 is naturally higher. The
gas CO2 (carbon dioxide) is a green-house gas that absorbs heat radiation from
the Earth and thus keeps the Earth warm. In the shift between ice ages and
interglacial periods the atmospheric content of CO2 helps to intensify the
natural climate variations.
It had previously been thought that as the temperature began to rise at the end
of the ice age approximately 19,000 years ago, an increase in the amount of CO2
in the atmosphere followed with a delay of up to 1,000 years.
"Our analyses of ice cores from the ice sheet in Antarctica shows that the
concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere FOLLOWS the rise in Antarctic
temperatures very closely and is STAGGERED BY A FEW HUNDRED YEARS AT MOST,"
explains Sune Olander Rasmussen, Associate Professor and centre coordinator at
the Centre for Ice and Climate at the Niels Bohr Institute at the University of
Copenhagen.
(this is what alarmists do to lessen the burden of proof on themselves. They
admit that CO² follows temperatures, but they try to make it seem an
insignificant amount by stating it's "ONLY a few hundred to a 1000 years". That
only works when you're speaking on the grand scale of Earth time, when
alarmists are speaking ONLY of the last 140 years)
Rise In Temperatures And CO2 Follow Each Other Closely In Climate Change
The research results show that the concentration of CO2 IN THE ATMOSPHERE
FOLLOWED THE TEMPERATURE in Antarctica closely throughout the shift from ice
age to interglacial in the period 19-11,000 years before the present. The green
curve shows the temperature from measurements from the 5 ice cores marked on
the map. The red and blue curves show the atmospheric CO2 content in the air
bubbles in the ice cores from the two bores at Siple Dome (red) and Byrd
(blue). The analysis shows that the CO2 CONCENTRATION FOLLOWS THE INCREASE IN
TEMPERATURE WITH A DELAY OF NO MORE THAN A FEW HUNDRED YEARS.
(we're taking abnout the last 140, you fucking morons, which falls into the
"category" of a "few hundred years")
That the CO2 CONCENTRATION IN THE ATMOSPHERE FOLLOWS THE ANTARCTIC TEMPERA-
TURE SO CLOSELY (see? a few hundered years is "close"?) suggests that processes
in the ocean around Antarctica play an important role in the rise in CO2.
(yeah... when it warms, the oceans emit CO²)
The research, which was carried out in collaboration with researchers from the
University of Tasmania in Australia, is based on measurements of ice cores from
five boreholes through the ice sheet in Antarctica. The ice sheet is formed by
snow that doesn't melt, but remains year after year and is gradually compressed
into kilometers thick ice.
During the compression, air is trapped between the snowflakes and as a result
the ice contains tiny samples of ancient atmospheres. The composition of the
ice also shows what the temperature was when the snow fell, so the ice is an
archive of past climate and atmospheric composition.
"The ice cores show a nearly synchronous relationship between the temperature
in Antarctica and the atmospheric content of CO2, and this suggests that it is
the processes in the deep-sea around Antarctica that play an important role in
the CO2 increase," explains Sune Olander Rasmussen.
He explains that one of the theories is that when Antarctica warms up, there
will be stronger winds over the Southern Ocean and the winds pump more water up
from the deep bottom layers in the ocean where there is a high content of CO2
from all of the small organisms that die and fall down to the sea floor and
rot. When strong winds blow over the Southern Ocean, the ocean circulation
brings more of the CO2-rich bottom water up to the surface and a portion of
this CO2 is released into the atmosphere. This process links temperature and
CO2 together and the new results suggest that the linking is closer and happens
faster than previously believed.
Climatic impact
The global temperature changed naturally because of the changing solar
radiation caused by variations in the Earth's orbit around the Sun, the Earth's
tilt and the orientation of the Earth's axis. These are called the Milankowitch
cycles and occur in periods of approximately 100,000, 42,000, and 22,000 years.
These are the cycles that cause the Earth's climate to shift between long ice
ages of approximately 100,000 years and warm interglacial periods, typically
10,000 - 15,000 years. The natural warming of the climate was intensified by
the increased amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.
"What we are observing in the present day is the mankind has caused the CO2
content in the atmosphere to rise as much in just 150 years as it rose over
8,000 years during the transition from the last ice age to the current
interglacial period and that can bring the Earth's climate out of balance,"
explains Sune Olander Rasmussen adding "That is why it is even more important
that we have a good grip on which processes caused the climate of the past to
change, because the same processes may operate in addition to the anthropogenic
changes we see today. In this way the climate of the past helps us to
understand how the various parts of the climate systems interact and what we
can expect in the future."
=====
April:
Another Meter Of Snow Hits The Alps
Europe's Crop Losses Worsen - "The Biggest Disaster Of The Last 100 Years"
Frost Damage Reported From France To Ukraine
Growers In Canada And Northeast Also Suffer
Australia To Shiver Into May, Defying BoM Predictions
Record Cold Strikes Northern Ontario
Rare April Snow Continues Across Europe
Europe Breaks Historic Low Temperature Records As Rare Spring Snow Falls on
Major Cities
Norwegian Ski Resort on For Bumper Summer Season
Europe Freezes
No Spring In Sight For Much of Russia
Temperatures Are Falling Globally
Feet of Spring Snow Pound Colorado
U.S. Braces For Record April Cold
Socal's Back-To-Back Bumper Snow Seasons
Cold And Snow To Persist Into May Across Europe
Scabbard on For Cold April
Switzerland's Snow Matches Historic 1974-75 Season
Heavy Snow Slams Northwestern Iran
Europe Braces For Spring Freeze
Another Three Avalanche Deaths In The Alps
Indian State Suffers Coldest April Day on Record
Today's Arctic Sea Ice Extent Matches 1996
Snow Remains In Northern India
54 Spots
NZ's Record-Cold March
Rare April Snow Hits Bay Area
More Snow For Midwest/New
Scandinavia Extends Historic Cold Spell, As Europe Sets Snow Records
Feet Of Spring Snow Pound Colorado
Southern Cal's Back-To-Back Bumper Snow Seasons
Svalbard On For Cold April
Indian State Suffers Coldest April Day On Record
The Arctic Was Warmer In The 1920s
Germany Regrets Disbanding Nuclear Plants, It Was A "Mistake"
Yukon Snowpack Breaks Records
Early Snows Hit Australia's Ski Fields
It's Still Snowing On Kilimanjaro... Al Gore Was Wrong (as usual)
Alyeska Exceeds 700 Inches
Rare April Snow Hits Boise
Montreal's Snowiest April Since 2010
Clearing Crews Reach Baralacha
Antarctica At -75.8C (-104.4F)
Alta Posts Rare Back-To-Back 600+ Inch Winters
Indian Army Rescues 80 Trapped By Spring Snowfall
Remarkable Antarctic Sea Ice Recovery
April Nor'Easter Drops Feet Of Snow
600,000 Lose Power As 'Spring' Storm Batters Quebec
Avalanche Hits Helicopter In The Alps, Killing 3
Scandinavia Breaks Historic Low Temperature Stretch
New Zealand's Record-Cold March
Rare April Snow To Dust Bay Area Peaks
More Snow For The Midwest/Northeast
Scandinavia Extends Spell Of Historic April Cold, As Europe's Mountain Snow
Breaks Records
Sweden Sets Coldest April Temperature
Swiss Avalanche Kills 3
Utah Snowpack At 132%, California Defies The 'Experts'
Anchorage Only 6.3" Away From All-Time Record
Colder-Than-Average March At Vostok
Antarctica Dips Below -100F
"Significant Spring Snowstorm" Takes Aim At Canada/Northern US
April Snow Builds Across Europe's Higher Elevations