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From: AlleyCat <katt@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.global-warming,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,alt.politics.liberalism,alt.politics.democrats,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Which Comes First, Carbon Dioxide Or Warming?
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2024 08:45:28 -0500
Organization: AlleyCat Computing, Inc.


Which Came First, The Carbon Dioxide Or The Heat?

https://arstechnica.com

The topic of anthropogenic climate change always seems to be a "hot" issue, and 
an article in an upcoming issue of Science will look at the relation of two 
components of climate change. The authors examine both the timing of CO2 
increases relative to temperature increases, and verify a prediction made by 
climate models.

Over the course of glacial and interglacial cycles, CO2 and temperature have 
been highly correlated, BUT INCREASES IN CO2 OCCUR AFTER INCREASES IN 
TEMPERATURE, rather than vice versa.

Most climate scientists have accepted that the climate system is complicated 
and other forces may have initiated warming, while CO2 merely acted as a 
positive feedback. Others, however, have used this evidence to suggest that CO2 
may not cause increased temperatures.

=====

Ice Cores Show CO2 Increases Lag Behind Temperature Rises, Disproving The Link 
To Global Warming

The lag proves that rising CO2 did not cause the initial warming as past ice 
ages ended, but it does not in any way contradict the idea that higher CO2 
levels cause warming.

Ice cores from Antarctica show that at the end of recent ice ages, the 
concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere usually STARTED TO RISE ONLY 
AFTER TEMPERATURES HAD BEGUN TO CLIMB. There is uncertainty about the timings, 
partly because the air trapped in the cores is younger than the ice, but it 
appears the lags might sometimes have been 800 years or more.

Initial warming:

This proves that rising CO2 was not the trigger that caused the initial warming 
at the end of these ice ages - but no climate scientist has ever made this 
claim. It certainly does not challenge the idea that more CO2 heats the planet.

We know that CO2 is a greenhouse gas because it absorbs and emits certain 
frequencies of infrared radiation. Basic physics tells us that gases with this 
property trap heat radiating from the Earth, that the planet would be a lot 
colder if this effect was not real and that adding more CO2 to the atmosphere 
will trap even more heat. 

(same as with the end of The Little Ice Age... warming started LONG before CO² 
got any where NEAR what would constitute CO² being able to "warm")

=====

(a lesson in non-denial denials)

Rise In Temperatures And CO2 Follow Each Other Closely, But Not Exactly, In 
Climate Change - University of Copenhagen

Rise in temperatures and CO2 follow each other closely in climate change

The greatest climate change the world has seen in the last 100,000 years was 
the transition from the ice age to the warm interglacial period. New research 
from the Niels Bohr Institute at the University of Copenhagen indicates that, 
contrary to previous opinion, the rise in temperature and the rise in the 
atmospheric CO2 follow each other closely in terms of time. The results have 
been published in the scientific journal, Climate of the Past.

In the warmer climate the atmospheric content of CO2 is naturally higher. The 
gas CO2 (carbon dioxide) is a green-house gas that absorbs heat radiation from 
the Earth and thus keeps the Earth warm. In the shift between ice ages and 
interglacial periods the atmospheric content of CO2 helps to intensify the 
natural climate variations.

It had previously been thought that as the temperature began to rise at the end 
of the ice age approximately 19,000 years ago, an increase in the amount of CO2 
in the atmosphere followed with a delay of up to 1,000 years.

"Our analyses of ice cores from the ice sheet in Antarctica shows that the 
concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere FOLLOWS the rise in Antarctic 
temperatures very closely and is STAGGERED BY A FEW HUNDRED YEARS AT MOST," 
explains Sune Olander Rasmussen, Associate Professor and centre coordinator at 
the Centre for Ice and Climate at the Niels Bohr Institute at the University of 
Copenhagen.

(this is what alarmists do to lessen the burden of proof on themselves. They 
admit that CO² follows temperatures, but they try to make it seem an 
insignificant amount by stating it's "ONLY a few hundred to a 1000 years". That 
only works when you're speaking on the grand scale of Earth time, when 
alarmists are speaking ONLY of the last 140 years)

Rise In Temperatures And CO2 Follow Each Other Closely In Climate Change

The research results show that the concentration of CO2 IN THE ATMOSPHERE 
FOLLOWED THE TEMPERATURE in Antarctica closely throughout the shift from ice 
age to interglacial in the period 19-11,000 years before the present. The green 
curve shows the temperature from measurements from the 5 ice cores marked on 
the map. The red and blue curves show the atmospheric CO2 content in the air 
bubbles in the ice cores from the two bores at Siple Dome (red) and Byrd 
(blue). The analysis shows that the CO2 CONCENTRATION FOLLOWS THE INCREASE IN 
TEMPERATURE WITH A DELAY OF NO MORE THAN A FEW HUNDRED YEARS.

(we're taking abnout the last 140, you fucking morons, which falls into the 
"category" of a "few hundred years")

That the CO2 CONCENTRATION IN THE ATMOSPHERE FOLLOWS THE ANTARCTIC TEMPERA- 
TURE SO CLOSELY (see? a few hundered years is "close"?) suggests that processes 
in the ocean around Antarctica play an important role in the rise in CO2.

(yeah... when it warms, the oceans emit CO²)

The research, which was carried out in collaboration with researchers from the 
University of Tasmania in Australia, is based on measurements of ice cores from 
five boreholes through the ice sheet in Antarctica. The ice sheet is formed by 
snow that doesn't melt, but remains year after year and is gradually compressed 
into kilometers thick ice.

During the compression, air is trapped between the snowflakes and as a result 
the ice contains tiny samples of ancient atmospheres. The composition of the 
ice also shows what the temperature was when the snow fell, so the ice is an 
archive of past climate and atmospheric composition.

"The ice cores show a nearly synchronous relationship between the temperature 
in Antarctica and the atmospheric content of CO2, and this suggests that it is 
the processes in the deep-sea around Antarctica that play an important role in 
the CO2 increase," explains Sune Olander Rasmussen.

He explains that one of the theories is that when Antarctica warms up, there 
will be stronger winds over the Southern Ocean and the winds pump more water up 
from the deep bottom layers in the ocean where there is a high content of CO2 
from all of the small organisms that die and fall down to the sea floor and 
rot. When strong winds blow over the Southern Ocean, the ocean circulation 
brings more of the CO2-rich bottom water up to the surface and a portion of 
this CO2 is released into the atmosphere. This process links temperature and 
CO2 together and the new results suggest that the linking is closer and happens 
faster than previously believed.
Climatic impact

The global temperature changed naturally because of the changing solar 
radiation caused by variations in the Earth's orbit around the Sun, the Earth's 
tilt and the orientation of the Earth's axis. These are called the Milankowitch 
cycles and occur in periods of approximately 100,000, 42,000, and 22,000 years. 
These are the cycles that cause the Earth's climate to shift between long ice 
ages of approximately 100,000 years and warm interglacial periods, typically 
10,000 - 15,000 years. The natural warming of the climate was intensified by 
the increased amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

"What we are observing in the present day is the mankind has caused the CO2 
content in the atmosphere to rise as much in just 150 years as it rose over 
8,000 years during the transition from the last ice age to the current 
interglacial period and that can bring the Earth's climate out of balance," 
explains Sune Olander Rasmussen adding "That is why it is even more important 
that we have a good grip on which processes caused the climate of the past to 
change, because the same processes may operate in addition to the anthropogenic 
changes we see today. In this way the climate of the past helps us to 
understand how the various parts of the climate systems interact and what we 
can expect in the future." 

=====

April:

Another Meter Of Snow Hits The Alps
Europe's Crop Losses Worsen - "The Biggest Disaster Of The Last 100 Years"
Frost Damage Reported From France To Ukraine
Growers In Canada And Northeast Also Suffer
Australia To Shiver Into May, Defying BoM Predictions 

Record Cold Strikes Northern Ontario

Rare April Snow Continues Across Europe

Europe Breaks Historic Low Temperature Records As Rare Spring Snow Falls on 
Major Cities

Norwegian Ski Resort on For Bumper Summer Season

Europe Freezes

No Spring In Sight For Much of Russia

Temperatures Are Falling Globally

Feet of Spring Snow Pound Colorado

U.S. Braces For Record April Cold

Socal's Back-To-Back Bumper Snow Seasons

Cold And Snow To Persist Into May Across Europe

Scabbard on For Cold April

Switzerland's Snow Matches Historic 1974-75 Season

Heavy Snow Slams Northwestern Iran

Europe Braces For Spring Freeze

Another Three Avalanche Deaths In The Alps

Indian State Suffers Coldest April Day on Record

Today's Arctic Sea Ice Extent Matches 1996

Snow Remains In Northern India

54 Spots

NZ's Record-Cold March

Rare April Snow Hits Bay Area

More Snow For Midwest/New

Scandinavia Extends Historic Cold Spell, As Europe Sets Snow Records

Feet Of Spring Snow Pound Colorado

Southern Cal's Back-To-Back Bumper Snow Seasons

Svalbard On For Cold April

Indian State Suffers Coldest April Day On Record

The Arctic Was Warmer In The 1920s

Germany Regrets Disbanding Nuclear Plants, It Was A "Mistake"

Yukon Snowpack Breaks Records

Early Snows Hit Australia's Ski Fields

It's Still Snowing On Kilimanjaro... Al Gore Was Wrong (as usual)

Alyeska Exceeds 700 Inches

Rare April Snow Hits Boise

Montreal's Snowiest April Since 2010

Clearing Crews Reach Baralacha

Antarctica At -75.8C (-104.4F)

Alta Posts Rare Back-To-Back 600+ Inch Winters

Indian Army Rescues 80 Trapped By Spring Snowfall

Remarkable Antarctic Sea Ice Recovery

April Nor'Easter Drops Feet Of Snow

600,000 Lose Power As 'Spring' Storm Batters Quebec

Avalanche Hits Helicopter In The Alps, Killing 3

Scandinavia Breaks Historic Low Temperature Stretch

New Zealand's Record-Cold March

Rare April Snow To Dust Bay Area Peaks

More Snow For The Midwest/Northeast

Scandinavia Extends Spell Of Historic April Cold, As Europe's Mountain Snow 
Breaks Records

Sweden Sets Coldest April Temperature

Swiss Avalanche Kills 3

Utah Snowpack At 132%, California Defies The 'Experts'

Anchorage Only 6.3" Away From All-Time Record

Colder-Than-Average March At Vostok

Antarctica Dips Below -100F

"Significant Spring Snowstorm" Takes Aim At Canada/Northern US

April Snow Builds Across Europe's Higher Elevations